ECOsmarte blog

We have been using Ecosmarte in a new, in-ground 23,000 gallon pool for about six months. Overall, we're very happy with the system. My question involves "pH bounce". In order to keep the pH in the 6.8-7.2 range, I've had to add 1 gallon of muratic acid about every 4-5 days. Until recently I had not thought to check alkalinity because the Ecosmarte test kit advsises pH, copper, and hardness testing. (I do check phosphates and they are at 0.) Long story, short: a pool tech guy tested our alkalinity, it was at 0. I added 4 lbs baking soda for two consecutive days (total 8 lbs.), and alkalinity is now at 50. pH tested at 7.8 today, so I added a gallon of muratic acid. Now that the alkalinity is at a more desireable level, can I expect the pH to stay stable longer? How often should we expect to add muratic acid to keep pH in the 6.8-7.2 range? How often do you recommend checking alkalinity? Thanks! Al

In general, water with low alkalinity is very susceptible to changes in pH. Water with high alkalinity is more able to resist major shifts in pH. In theory, the pH should be a bit more stable if you raise the alkalinity - but it is not quite that simple.

The rule for an ECOsmarte pool is not to be concerned about alkalinity unless your pool is lime green with clear water - which means your alkalinity is too high. The usual mechanisms for measuring alkalinity do not take into account the bicarbonate minerals that the ECOsmarte chamber transforms hard water minerals into - so your alkalinity measurement will not be accurate.

I do not pretend to completely understand alkalinity; it's a bit complicated. Alkalinity relates to pH and the minerals in the water but is really a measure of the capacity of a solution to neutralize acid. Point being after being treated with the ECOsmarte system, the usual rules of alkalinity are no longer accurate.

To reduce the amount of Muriatic acid you use in your pool and stabilize the pH a bit more - this is the advice from home office: When you add the acid (which always needs to be liquid, btw) and you usually need, say, a half gallon to get the pH to 6.8 - go ahead and put in the whole gallon. Your pH will be lower than 6.8 for a day or so - but pH will always rise over time, so the pool will be fine. After doing this for a few weeks (putting in twice the normal amount) you will sort of "train" the pool to be a lower pH and you will need less acid. That's the word from corporate - if you want more info about this - do call them.

As far as how much muriatic acid is normal - it depends on so many environmental factors that it's hard to say. Depends on your fill water, level of pool use, dogs in pool, pH of rain, and other factors, too. There is a 20,000 gallon ECOsmarte pool just down the street from me here in Ventura County, California, and it needs less than 1/4 gallon per week.

Give it a go and let us know how it works, Al. Thanks for the great question - this is information many of our customers will benefit from.

I just got off of the phone with our people on the ground in Haiti. The orphanage is not damaged and our ECOsmarte donated (and logoed )water truck is saving lives by delivering water after the hurricane disaster!

If you can earmark donations to the fuel and maintenance of both of their trucks at www.buya.org it will give you the same goose bump reaction I had to this news after watching the CNN video last weekend. Faith based American volunteers are driving the vehicle.

I once again wish to thank the ECOsmarte customers, salespeople, resellers and stockholder who made the truck donation possible.

Larry Couture CEO

A week and a half ago I installed a new liner and ecosmarte system I have been running the unit on ionizer and high trying to get cu ions up my pH is correct and I have been adding ca. chloride crystals daily since my well water is very hard and we have had a lot of rain lately and there is quite a bit of algae developing what should I do now? thanks for the help Cary

Hi Cary,
Thanks for visiting the blog.

Since you mention a liner, I am not sure whether you have an above ground pool or in-ground pool, since liners are made for both. You are correct in running the ionizer constantly in the beginning to get the copper level up to .7 ppm. In the beginning this can be a challenge - there is a threshold you need to get beyond to get enough copper in the pool. Once you get to .7ppm, it will require ionizing to keep your copper level there.

I was a little confused when you mentioned "high" - if you have a turbo pool system with the high/low switch - you will want it on high all the time. The low setting is only used for water with high TDS (total dissolved solids) because it conducts electricity better and too much copper can get into the pool.

The calcium chloride crystals should only need to be used in the beginning, when you test the hardness of your water and add calcium chloride to bring it up to the right range (if necessary). They are not something you use on a consistent basis.

First off - call the ECOsmarte help line at 1-800-466-7946 and they will lead you through figuring out why you have algae. Phosphates are a possibility because it sounds like you live out in the country, where there are numerous situations in which phosphates could be introduced in the pool - so you will want to get your water tested at a local pool store to see what's in it - then ECOsmarte can help you treat it and get your pool back to sparkling clear.

In general, though I wish I could effectively diagnose each and every pool problem in this blog, it is much more time effective, thorough and just plain easier to call the guys on the help line. We have a new guy named Joshua who is really good at pool problems...you might want to ask for him!

OK - so the blue in the ears, on the Q-Tips..true or untrue? We're about to sign a contract for a new pool with an EcoSmarte system. I hate the idea of swimming in chemicals, so it sounds like a great deal. But blue ears?? Makes me wonder what is going to be getting into our bodies when we swim.

Can you elaborate on the 'blue ear' comment?

Thanks for visiting the blog, em. Here's the story with the blue ears.

First of all, a balanced pool with the correct level of copper and the recommended pH will not cause blue/green anything.

If the copper level is extremely high in the pool, you can get blue/green ears, fingernails, toenails or hair. Keeping the copper level in the recommended parameters is important, and not just a suggestion. Some people think that if a little bit of copper is good, a lot would keep the pool even cleaner, so they let the copper levels get way too high. I have also seen this happen accidentally when a customer who has the non-programmable system forgot to turn the copper ionization off. He has a small pool and left it on for a few days when it was only supposed to be on for a few hours once a week.

The only other way this can happen is if someone puts chlorine in the pool, which can precipitate out the copper. It is important to use only approved products in an ECOsmarte pool - when in doubt call the 800 number and ask.

What will be getting into your body with an ECOsmarte pool? A little bit of copper...emphasis on the word little, here. If you drank 2 gallons of your pool water (which we would never recommend), you would just reach your recommended daily amount of copper. The more important question would be what is not getting into your body?

Trihalomethanes and Chloramines; Chlorine disinfection by-products I am pretty sure are able to be absorbed through your skin. Cyanuric acid, which can irritate the skin, eyes, respiratory system and digestive tract. And that's just the start - depends what your pool service decides to throw in your pool that week...

Many people are so concerned about drinking clean water without toxic disinfection by-products in it, then they go jump in a pool that is filled with them. Or they take a shower with tap water, which amounts to the same thing.

You will love your ECOsmarte pool. There is absolutely nothing like swimming in chlorine-free water. Your hair, skin, eyes, dogs and swimsuits will all be happier!

hi wendy was wondering if our eco-smarte system would remove the malathion and other pesticide/herbicides in our water?

(as i am sure you know, there is a lot being sprayed in matilija
canyon. dead toads and fishes and other animals higher up the
chain. so dumb!) (i lived through the massive spraying in LA)

p.lyn

Hi P.Lyn,

Malathion is an insecticide, an organophosphate. What they are spraying in Matilija canyon for the arundo eradication is “Rodeo”, also an organophosphate. It is a form of Round-up, which is an herbicide and the active ingredient is Glyphosate. Here is more information about what they are doing.

The removal guidelines for your an ECOsmarte Water Home filtration system.offer the best available removal of both pesticides and herbicides.

Here is the link to the MSDS sheet for Rodeo.
Rest assured - you have the best possible filter to make sure these things do not end up in your drinking water!

I like my Ecosmarte System, but the titanium electrodes don't last forever. One of my titanium electrodes has dissolved away after 7 years of use. I'm also going to need to replace my copper electrodes for the 2nd time at the end of summer.

Thanks for letting us know you like your system, Anthony! I would love to hear more from the happy people!

As far as replacing your copper electrodes, sounds like you are right on schedule - they should last you 3 - 5 years.

I called corporate and asked the guys about the titanium electrodes. They have had this experience only twice before in all the years of ECOsmarte (14 or so). Guess you are number 3 (in over 10,000 systems). Once was a system where part of each day the water was not flowing through the chamber but the oxygen electrodes were "on" - getting power and producing oxidation. This will actually create a bubble of oxygen and strong oxidation action which can indeed, over many years, erode away the titanium.

The other possibility is cleaning your chamber often with straight muriatic acid instead of 1 part acid and 3 parts water - this will eventually eat away at the electrodes as well. I'm thinking that if it's only one of the electrodes - that theory wouldn't hold up.

Thanks for visiting the blog!

(Read the comments - Anthony found out his titanium electrode was just hiding....!)

We are moving to a home with ‎very high lead and iron levels as well as very hard water. I am looking for a water filtration/softener system that does not use salt, but I don't want to read reviews on a company website. I think it will be biased. I am not having much luck locating a site that has a lot of good information. For the water filtration system, I am only finding filters that deal with iron. I need one that deals with lead as well. Would the same filter work for both. Our water also has a high sulfur content as it smells like rotten eggs. What are your suggestions?

Thanks,
Pam

Lead, Lead, Lead....Okay – prepare yourself for lots of information.
Lead removal is not simple. The only surefire ways to completely remove lead are reverse osmosis or distillation, and another method I came across in my research which I am not very familiar with called “activated alumina”. If your lead levels are already above the action level of 15 micrograms, you may need one of these options just for drinking, no matter what you decide for the rest of your home. Reverse Osmosis will also remove the iron, but is normally a point of use application (under the kitchen sink) as opposed to whole house filtration. Distillation has a very limited output. From what I have been able to find out about the activated alumina, it will remove lead, arsenic and (yay) fluoride, but does not do anything to remove any other contaminants, specifically chlorine or disinfection by-products....

Continue reading "Pam wants to know about Lead, Iron, Sulfur and Hard Water" »

Wendy, If you are using the system excessively (watering outside) can you cause the water pressure to be reduced? I have been having a problem with my water pressure, when I bypass the backwashing system my water pressure problem goes away. I have installed a lot of new grass and have had the sprinklers going crazy outside. Is there something wrong with the backwash part of my system or am I overworking it? Joe

Hi Joe,
Thanks for visiting the blog. Our water systems are specifically designed to make sure you do not have problems with water flow - so something is not quite right here.

When you say "when I bypass the backwashing system" do you mean that you are bypassing the filtration system? Do you mean that you are turning the valve at the back of the head on top of the tank to the position that says "bypass"? If the answer is yes, that could indicate an undersized system for your level of water use, or a problem with the media.

Questions I need answers to to determine your problem:
Well water or municipal?
To make sure your unit was sized correctly for your level of water usage, how many sq ft of home, how many people live there, how many bathrooms and how much outside irrigation (in acres)?
Diameter of incoming pipe?
GPM flow rate? (you can determine this by taking a 5 gallon bucket and using a hose nearest your incoming water line, see how long it takes to fill up the bucket and do the math)
How old is the system? (It might be time to replace the media)
Have you installed significantly more landscaping/sprinklers since purchasing the system?

These answers will help me figure out what the problem is.

Let me know! (And if you want answers immediately - you can always call 1-800-466-7946 and talk to the answer guys at corporate)

Wendy

We're building a house and setting up a new pool that is a fiberglass inground pool. It holds about 22,000 gal. Our water in a pool in the same general area seems always to have a rather high ph - I'd say 7.8 - 8.2. When the ph needs to be lowered it requires Muriatic Acid. If you use that to lower the ph then you're adding things that I understand should not be used with the copper. We also have a Prozone Ozonator to install when we set up the pool. which I think eliminates the need for large amounts of chlorine. So my question is will this work for us? Thanks, Eileen

Hello Eileen,
Thanks for visiting the blog. First let me answer your question about the compatibility of muriatic acid with our copper ionization system - there is no problem there. Since the pH of an ECOsmarte pool needs to stay between 6.8 and 7.2, you will need to use a pH reducer. Muriatic acid is the most common one, and although it is nasty stuff (it is an acid) and you must be careful using it, once you put it in the pool it adjusts the pH and does not leave any kind of toxic by-product that I am aware of. Muriatic acid is completely compatible with the ECOsmarte pool system. (Chlorine is not compatible - but that's another story.)

Another choice for pH adjustment is to use CO2 gas, which is the pH reduction mechanism used by our top of the line fully programmable pool system. CO2 gas is bubbled into the water for set amounts of time every day and keeps the pH where it needs to be - all fully automated. And CO2 gas is not as touchy to handle as acid, obviously.

As far as the Ozonator you mention - we do not recommend combining our system with any other - ECOsmarte eliminates the need for chlorine, bromine, and ozone. The oxidation produced in the ECOsmarte chamber will take care of your organic materials and the copper ions will be your residual; what stays in the water killing bad things. An ECOsmarte system will work fine for your pool - you do not need the ozone.

Typically, ozone pools need to run 24/7 because the oxidation is only temporary - there is no residual killing agent. That is why ozone pools are chlorine reduction pools - not chlorine free. As I mentioned above - chlorine is incompatible with an ECOsmarte pool...and you will be thrilled to swim in a truly chlorine-free pool - it is heaven!

why do you have to use pea gravel. i believe my installers did not use the gravel , but just used the glass media???thanks in advance

I believe pea gravel is used to ensure the stability of the media base and prevent channeling of the media. The pea gravel covers what are called the "laterals" in the filter - sort of arms that fan out and feed the water into the bottom of the filter. Pea gravel is heavier and more stable and will allow the flow of the water to occur without channeling of the glass media.