ECOsmarte blog

How does this system handle urine in a pool or spa?

Karen - thanks for visiting!
The electronic oxidation part of our technology very effectively eliminates organic material including urine, suntan lotion, skin cells, etc. ECOsmarte oxidation is actually more powerful than chlorine (which is the most common pool/spa oxidation agent used) and produces none of the toxic by-products. Our oxidation is produced by temporarily splitting the water molecule with low voltage titanium electrodes. This produces Oxygen, Hydroxyl radicals, Atomic Oxygen and Hydrogen Peroxide - all powerful oxidation producers. And the best part - all natural!

I have seen some blogs on ecosmarte problems with whole house systems esp. calcium formation with pictures and I am considering placing these systems in my pool and house (new) with the same well system this guy had I assume can you give me real customers that have had these systems for 4 yrs and still have them and they are still happy? I need more than a 90 day guarantee to spend that kind of money!

Hi Johnny, I did a quick search on Google and think I found the blog you are talking about.

First - some information: ECOsmarte does not remove minerals from your water; it transforms them to a softer, bicarbonate state so they will not precipitate out under 150 degrees F. So the minerals stay in your water, but do not cause scaling below 150 degrees F.

There are pictures on the blog of an "EWC steam humidifier" with calcium formation on the heating element. A quick look at the link provided for the humidifier gives the technical specifications - it is a PDF, so I have copied the relevant information here:
"Once the water reaches 170 deg. F the "BLOWER" LED will illuminate and the system blower should start up."

This makes it quite clear that this piece of equipment will indeed heat the water over 150 degrees Fahrenheit. I have no way of knowing what temperature the water heater is set at - but ECOsmarte owner manual specifically states: Important: Use medium setting on water heater when available.
Since this person also complains about shower heads and faucets, my guess would be that his water heater is set to above 150 degrees F and this precipitates out all the minerals, which then go into the house and cause scaling. A simple adjustment should solve the problem. The humidifier, however, runs at too high of a temperature to be compatible with an ECOsmarte system.

Unfortunately, this looks like a poor sales job by McIntyre Softwater, which really stinks. Customer education is extremely important, and this customer clearly does not understand the temperature limitations. He apparently has also not read his owner's manual regarding the water heater setting. Not really sure who "Douglas Water" is, either - because no ECOsmarte dealer by that name exists.

Many people assume that the ECOsmarte system removes the minerals, but this is not so - if you take a hardness test before water is run through the system, it will be exactly the same as when it leaves the system. And those minerals are healthy for your body. Any appliance that boils water will precipitate out the minerals. So appliances such as electric hot water pots or coffee makers will still have a powdery, easy-to-remove scale. But dishwashers, hot water heaters(medium setting) and washing machines all operate at around 140 degrees, so have no hard water scale problems. Plus, the inside of your pipes don't get scale buildup - the reverse is actually true; the presence of the copper ions encourage existing scale to go back into solution - we have the pipe cross-sections to prove it (you can find the pictures on the ecosmarte.com website).

When we say we have a 99% satisfaction rate, that is not just us flapping our gums, we really do. There are scads of testimonials on the website to prove it. Home office (800) ION-SWIM would love to hear from the supposed "95%" that want to replace our system with salt water softeners - because until we hear from them - we can't help them. It would indeed be a travesty if the people in that category were all poor sales jobs. There doesn't appear to be other people chiming in with a bad experience....
Yes, this technology works. For reals.

I have also looked at the pictures Wendy has referred to on the well water installation. While the installation is a very professional job from a plumbing standpoint, there are a couple of flaws in the installation that would cause the scaling problems referred to.
First if you notice in the picture the wiring from the control box is still wrapped in a coil and does not lead to the chambers. without the wiring hooked up this customer is not receiving the benefit of the ionization or oxidation.
the second thing is this is a flow switch installation. Even if the the wiring was hooked up, we would still have scaling issues because the flow switch is installed after the copper chamber. this means when ionization is occurring the copper will be loading on the spring of the flow switch. this will cause the flow switch to stick open or closed. if open the water would get very blue green and if closed the system would never turn on, which means no ionization or oxidation and thus no scale removal. without the system turning on, we are not able to create the bicarbonates which are what eliminate the scale.

I believe that everyone would like a pool without chemicals. I am very sceptical at the moment. Could you answer a few questions?
1. Why is it that I cannot hardly find any info on the internet regarding this product? You would think after 13 years there would be news articles, newspaper articles, magazine articles, not profit organization reviews, etc
2. There are posts that state this product was used in the pools at the olympics. This does not seem to be true as there is not one website that is credible that mentions this.
3. I have read in several forums that the "science" at your website is simply untrue.

In closing, with such a miracle product, why after 13 years is the patent not done, no credible agencies discussing it, and almost no positive or negative information on the web. Quite strange. Thanks for any info you can provide. You might also mention to corporate that the main website could really use a remodeling. Looks like it was done in 1994. Pictures are blurry and not very professional. A flash intro and a more modern clean look would go a long way.

Hi Ralph,
Thanks for visiting the blog. Happy to answer your questions.

1. Product names rarely appear in news articles, so that the reporting source does not endorse that product. If you do a google news search for the name of our competitors, you come up with zip, just like a news search for ECOsmarte. Try doing a news search for the technology; "copper ionization pool" in the archives, and there will be articles from 1989 to 2005 discussing the effectiveness of copper ionization in pools. Or you can find a few ECOsmarte specific things here: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2003_July_25/ai_105855341
http://www.minnesotatechnology.org/publications/magazine/2005/fall/upfront_SmartWater.asp
http://www.triadgolf.com/July2003/oncourse-pinebrook.htm
http://www.channel3000.com/family/1162507/detail.html

2. ECOsmarte was in the 500K gallon lake that was in the middle of the stadium for opening ceremonies. We are also in somewhat less than 100 olympic size pools all over the world. But we were not in the competition pools at the 2004 Athens olympics. Sorry for the confusion.

3. Basically you can find an opposing opinion to just about anything on the internet. If the science of copper ionization is not true, then someone should tell NASA that they really blew it by inventing and using that technology to keep the water clean for the space shoots in the late 60's. How embarassing for them!
Here is the link that talks about NASA. http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/spacenews/factsheets/pdfs/apollo.pdf
The company mentioned developed a chlorine reduction system, whereas ours is a true chlorine elimination system.
All we ask is that you try it for yourself - money back guarantee - and not take the 65 pool testimonials on the ecosmarte website as truth.

4. We do not operate under a patent and have not filed for one. We have trade secrets that we will not divulge in the patent process.

5. Yah, we know the home website needs a re-do. Thanks for the reminder. Pool season is really busy for us so it will probably get done this fall. You can check my website if you want - less info but perhaps more up your alley:
http://www.ecosmartewater.com/

I appreciate healthy skepticism and am happy to answer any other questions. Thanks for the visit, Ralph.

We purchased an ECOSMARTE system and installed it on a new pool (8600 gallons). I followed all of the directions we use a DE filter and have no visible contaminants in the water. Ph is 6.8 copper is @ .6. My three children swim competitively and so spend a lot of time in the water. After one week in our new pool all three children have developed very painful cases of swimmers ear. My wife is beside herself as none of the kids can sleep the pain is so bad. She has asked me to assure her that the ECOSMARTE water is truly sanitized. Her thinkng is that if the chlorinated water is bad and he public pools are not properly sanitized (due to bathing load etc) why didn't the kids get swimmers ear before? They spent a lot of time in the water for the last three years. I have spoken to the company representatives but I have also seen information on the internet claiming that the copper ionization system used by ecosmarte is "invalid voodo". Can you provide specific information and test results that will calm my wifes fears and assure her that the ecosmarte sanitization is as good or better than chlorine based systems.

Hello Brian,
I'm so sorry to hear about your kid's ear problems. I had ear infections as a child and they aren't fun.

Reassurance:
First off, this is not a complaint ECOsmarte has received on a regular basis; actually never in the 13 years we have been in business. Usually we get the opposite. Here's what I mean by that. Parents will call and say that their child who usually gets otitis went through an entire swimming season with no problems after installing an ECOsmarte system. We have been told numerous times that pink eye, swimmer's ear, warts and yeast infections have simply gone away. A doctor explained it to us that the copper in the water prevents the growth of these bacteria/viruses, whereas expired chemical byproducts will actually feed the bacteria.

This is a bit beyond the scope of my college chemistry, but I am familiar with people using bleach to kill mold in showers, and was told by a mold remediation expert that once the chlorine is gone, what's left is water - which feeds the mold, unfortunately.

Copper is indeed anti-bacterial:
http://www.copper.org/health/pdf/astm_antimicrobial_copper.pdf
Copper and silver ionization was developed by NASA for water purification on the space shoots, so is a valid technology:
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/spacenews/factsheets/pdfs/apollo.pdf
The Oxidation part of our technology is at least twice as powerful as pool chlorine, and takes care of the organic substances in your pool.

Even with all this protection and sanitization, any pool can get overloaded, contaminated or out of balance, of course.

Please be reassured, however, that your ECOsmarte pool, properly maintained, is safe and quite sanitary. I spoke with corporate and they do have a lab test somewhere that was performed on pool water - they're digging it up and I will post a link to it when available. I forget they aren't there just to answer my questions, and are actually quite busy shipping orders - it's the swim season.

Thank you for your answers. Further research has led me to this website http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1996/08/caribb2.shtm

The government sued this company that is selling a product with the same technology. The claim states that this company was using such practices as advertising that no chlorine was safe and "stop bleaching your children"

This has brought even more confusion. The government states that these products do not work as advertised. I thought I would bring it to your attention for clarification, and than call the number on the claim on Monday to get more clarification.

If the FTC is going to make a claim that the system is not true than I would think if things have changed that they would now state differently.

Thanks.
Ralph

Welcome back Ralph!

Let me clarify a few things.

First, Carribean Blue's technology is not the same as ours. They use copper and silver ionization only. Copper and silver ionization will kill all the nasties in the water, but without oxidation present, the organic material in the water will not be handled. Chlorine is an oxidizing agent, but comes with a high price of toxic by-products. The most important part of the formula that makes our technology special is oxidation.

ECOsmarte technology combines copper ionization with electronic oxidation. That means that the 2 titanium electrodes with a noble metals coating (our trade secret) in the ECOsmarte chamber have a low level DC voltage going from one bar to the other. What this causes is a temporary split of the water molecule, producing 4 types of oxidation, each one of which is a more powerful oxidizing agent than chlorine; O, O2, OH and H2O2. The best part is - no toxic by-products result.

Second, the FTC exists to make sure false advertising claims are not made about a product. Carribean Clear apparently initially claimed they were chlorine-free, and that their water was pure enough to drink. Since they had no oxidizing agent - they cannot operate chlorine(bromine)-free, and are instead a chlorine reduction system.

ECOsmarte absolutely advertises as chlorine-free; it's all over our literature, in bold print, on the front, etc. We also use the tag line, "like swimming in bottled water" - though we would never suggest that you drink your pool water. If our claims were unsubstantiated, the FTC would have slapped us down by now. I talked with our CEO, Larry Couture, about digging up a lab test that was done on ECOsmarte pool water - he's working on it and I will make sure it gets prominently posted for all to see here on the blog ASAP.

I admire your internet research skills, Ralph. you found stuff I had yet to unearth! SO let me re-state this for absolute clarity:
1. Our technology differs significantly from Carribean Clear; the only thing we have in common is the copper ionization. So please do not lump us in with them in a general category of "these products" that don't work.
2. One thing this company did get right is that no chlorine is safe; they just didn't have adequate technology to make it a reality. ECOsmarte does.
3. We at ECOsmarte, along with Carribean Clear, do wish that people would stop bleaching their children, and themselves, and their friends, and their relatives, and their dogs....

I have a new system and cannot get the water to get clear. All of my numbers are dead center on the PH and the Copper test. I also have a new filter. I purchased the Hot Tub from a moving neighbor and the Ecosmarte system is BRAND NEW!!!! To say I am frustrated with this is an understatement. For the first year I did not set up out above ground pool and was looking to replace the area with a basketball court due to this hot tub with your miraculous system (at least the claims are miraculous). You have me longing to dive into a chlorinated pool and destroy my hot tub. Please advise...your literature and troubleshooting in your 2007 guide absolutely stink.

Hello D. Lewis,
Sorry to hear you are having difficulties with your spa. I know how frustrating that can be. The very best way to handle this is to call 800-ION-SWIM and let them troubleshoot it with you . You will likely get either Jeremy or Mike on the line; these are the guys with all the answers. They can help you with your spa. All ECOsmarte products sold include 6 months of toll-free phone support to ensure customer/pool guy training and success. I encourage you to give them a call...then come back to tell us how it went!

I recently read some information on reverse osmosis water stating that it is acidic and not good to drink. Is ecosmarte water acidic? How does it compare to reverse osmosis?

thanks!

Hi Karen,
Welcome back to the blog!
You are right about RO water being acidic. I recently stumbled across this fact a few months ago myself, and decided to test it. I have PH sticks I was using to check my body's PH, so I used those. First I put one of them under tap water, and it was 7.0 - neutral. Then I put one under RO water and it measured 6.5, which is decidedly into the acidic territory.

The reason this is true is that the alkaline factors of the water, the minerals, are removed with RO. Water that is acidic tends to be somewhat agressive with anything it comes in contact with and will try to balance itself back to neutral. Water with no minerals (RO or distilled) will indeed leach minerals from your body in it's attempt to return to neutral. This is not on a huge scale, but over time could make a big difference.

The theory in health circles is that disease, bacteria, germs and viruses will flourish in acidic conditions, but not neutral or base. So it does seem that an acidic body state is one of the building blocks of disease in the body.

There are many web pages devoted to dietary lists of food that will produce an alkaline response in your body. And it is as you might expect: Alkaline (good) = fresh veggies and selected fruits, beans, nuts and grains. Acid (bad) = meat, dairy, sugar, processed carbs, carbonated beverages, coffee - all the stuff we know is bad for us anyway!

ECOsmarte water purification systems for the home do not remove the healthy minerals from your water, so the alkaline component is intact, your water is closer to neutral (depending on where you live) and your body gets the healthy minerals it needs.

Wendy,
We installed an Ecosmarte system on our new pool in October 2006 and so far so good. We did have an aglae bloom in May but that was addressed with an algaecide. After the initial balancing of the water back in October the only additional chemicals needed have been to raise the PH twice and kill off the algea. I would say for a first time pool owner this system is easy to maintain.

The other people that have posted don't mention calcium in there numbers so they may want to make sure the hardness is at the right level. Also, I test my water weekly at the pool store. I've found the test kit helpful but the pool company, North Eastern Pool & Spa, tests my water for free and are very helpful.

The system is easy to use and we have had no problems with ear infections, skin rashes or otherwise. I don't know how long a pool can go with an unsafe sanitation program but we decided to give the system a season.

I trust the pool company that installed the system to review product claims and I have confindence in them. I don't understand the science of copper, cholorine or pool chemistry but I do know when water stinks, drys out skin or leaves a rash and so far we have had none of that.

The only comment or complaint is when you clean your ears after swimming with a Q-Tip the Q-Tip comes out blue from the copper.

I'll post occasionally to update people on our experience . We have a 24,000 g inground vinyl pool, pentiar 300lb glass media filter, pentair 1.5 dual speed pump and pentair heat pump. We live in the North East.

I installed the system in my fiberglass pool a little over two weeks ago. while waiting for the system to rid my pool of chemicals, it was cloudy. As it started to clear my ph rose above 7.5 and I got an algae bloom. very frustrating when I am trying a new system. I put a yellow out in it and it made it worse. I drained off some of the water and refilled with new in order to help it clear. Ironically, the water is clear, not hazy, but it is still a lovely green color. I have been told that my chemicals don't necessarily have to match what a concrete pool numbers are because of the general make up of the pool, but what about with the ecosmarte system. How close should I keep my numbers compared to the book?

Kburke,
Thanks for visiting and sharing your ECOsmarte pool experience with us. I realize that this forum is an opportunity for folks who have encountered difficulties to write in for advice, and I welcome the chance to help, yet I am also glad to hear from the majority as well; the people who are happy with our systems. Thanks!
I do take exception to your statement: "I don't know how long a pool can go with an unsafe sanitation program but we decided to give the system a season", however. ECOsmarte pool systems are quite safe. Please don't think that the only safe way to have a pool is chlorine - nothing could be further from the truth! That's what actually makes it unsafe - not in a germs and bacteria way - in a toxic by-products way.
Good reminder about the calcium level in the pool - will pass that along. Enjoy your pool!
Wendy

David Gall,
I published your comment and my reply as an article - it will be on the front page - thanks for writing!

Hey Wendy,

Thanks for the reply. I didn't mean to say that Ecosmarte was unsafe. I ment to say, water goes bad quickly so if the system didn't work we would know about it pretty quick!

Ken

Ken,
Thanks for the clarification - I understand, now! Yes, indeed - if you do not have an effective system, it will quickly become apparent as your pool becomes host to all kinds of critters, even as quick as 24 hours you will see an algae bloom.

I saw you responded to my S&V post, http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/audiovideo/board/message?board.id=37&message.id=160568&jump=true#M160568 ,here is my reply in that web site

Wendy;
My overall goal is having good quality H20 at my home for my growing family of 5, all internal faucets, that is what led me to EcoSmarte back in 2002.
I'n not into bashing companies, I just want a good working system that does what I paid for.
By using this S&V formun, which is like a 3rd party, I felt a neutral way to gather other peoples experiences across the USA.

I'm a registered P.E. in Michigan (Professional Engineer), so I'm sorta Type A on investigation into something before I spend over $4k for it.
I did the "3 referrals thing" prior to buying the system. At that time, they all had good things to say:
http://picasaweb.google.com/mtbdudex/EcoSmarteIssue/photo#5081421024789603042
To answer you:
a) The system is installed correctly, the H20 flow meter is running correctly, and I am getting the proper voltage drop across both electrodes. It was run properly from day one, at least my understanding. The installation is exactly to your EcoSmarte install guidelines, trust me I verified that at install time and during troubleshooting time. I've had Sunshine/McIntyre over prior to confirm.

b) See the email correspondence below I've had with Jeremy @ EcoSmarte home office. I did speak with Jeremy after I sent him the below email.
Conclusion 1: My log home has GeoThermal system, from day one I've had that steam humidifier, here is why: Geo system does not output "hot" air during the heat cycle, rather it outputs "warm" air (around 84 deg f) and the system runs more, the home is at a more steady state, and very efficient, see my webpage tracking chart here http://mmrosinski.tripod.com/loghome/id19.html. However, traditional humidifers that run thru the HOT air portion of a std HVAC system can deliver humidy via their wheel / other system don't work at lower air temp so well, that is why I use a steam humidifer. I realize it will boil the water, therefore negate your "science" of H20 and I will have to remove scale on periodic basis, I accept that.
Conclusion 2: I don't accept the serious scale build up in my electric H20 tanks. As confirmed I've never set that temp to over 130 deg f, actually at the bathroom directly above the tanks the max temp measured was 128 deg f. I have 3 kids and of course know not to have it set too high or they will get burned possibly by accident. So, there is no explain why that scale build up in electric H20 tank, except EcoSmarte science does not really work. I'm from Missouri here, with fact based data to back that up. It's very frustating for me, why should I ber liable to spend more $$ to fix this issue? I've had other Water Conditioning people quote me their solutions for whole home H20, that's around $2.5k.
Conclusion 3: I have gotten white scale/streaking at my faucet end, and the worse part is my Main Bath overhead big circular shower fixture's. Those get plugged up efvery 4-6 months and I do need to use CLR to un-plug the white scale build up. Again, that is not acceptable.

Where do we go from here? I'm not sure yet.
Do I totally give up on EcoSmarte and invest $2.5K more of my own money for a traditional salt based conditioner whole home system?
Will EcoSmarte home office come to my home in Michigan and work with me on solving this issue, directly? If it can't be solved will you pro-rate to me some $$ back so I can get another solution? What are my options here? How can we work together for a win-win?


From: R, Mike
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:40 AM
To: larryc@ecosmarte.com; JMcIntyre@SunshineWaterTreatment.com; John@SunshineWaterTreatment.com
Subject: Pleaswe fwd to Jeremy RE: EcoSmarte Mineral build up issue Re: I own your system, possible need new carbon & hydroxide tank Mike R from SE Michigan
Importance: High?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

Larry @ Ecosmarte - please fwd to Jeremy.

Jeremy, thank you for calling me yesterday (in response to my 4/3/07 Fax to you) to try and address my below issues related to scale build up in the electric hot H20 tank, in my EWC Controls Model S2000 electric steam whole home humidifier, and white mineral deposits on all my fixtures (only CLR can remove it) - some which are blocking my shower head.
Based upon our phone discussion I did the following:

You said 2 things to check:
a) hot H20 temp must be below 150 f
>> I confirmed it is 128.5 deg in 1st floor bathroom that is directly above the Hot H20 tank, about 7 feet of piping run total, so no real temp loss in short run.
So, this is not the reason for the build up in hot H20 tank.

b) measure voltage across copper electrode is between 8 & 12 vdc
>> I measured it, was on low setting, measured 6.55vdc, on high measured 12.62vdc, left on high setting because you said should be between 8 v and 12 vdc while we were on the phone.

Is this part of the reason why I am having scaling/white mineral deposits? The low voltage? I never changed/touched it from install.
What should the nominal voltage design value be while on low setting?

Have you access to engineering documents, like DFMEA that shows potential problem areas of the Ecosmarte system?


____________________________________
Michael R P.E.
Section Manager;



From: Mike and Michelle R [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 12:14 AM
To: JMcIntyre@SunshineWaterTreatment.com; John@SunshineWaterTreatment.com
Subject: Fwd: EcoSmarte Mineral build up issue Re: I own your system, possible need new carbon & hydroxide tank Mike R from SE Michigan
Jim/John;
any comments/suggestions on how we should proceed to resolve this issue?
Mike R

Begin forwarded message:

From: M & M R >
Date: March 27, 2007 5:46:36 AM GMT-04:00
To: larryc@ecosmarte.com
Subject: EcoSmarte Mineral build up issue Re: I own your system, possible need new carbon & hydroxide tank Mike R from SE Michigan

Larry;
I built our new home and we moved in 5/2002.
We have a well system. I used a traditional salt based water softener in my old home since 1989, for this one I did research and wanted a salt free system, to be more eco friendly.

I picked your system, the EcoSmarte system, http://www.ecosmarte.com , costed approx $4500 - but was a whole home solution that did not use salt, etc.
I figure worth the extra $$ due to maintenance free, no salt, etc.
I did research, got 3 references from current owners at the time, actually called and spoke with all 3, etc. Everything seemed fine.
(No, I never considered those magnetic systems either, those seem bogus from the start)

I bought your EcoSmarte system from Sunshine Water Treatment, http://www.sunshinewatertreatment.com , based out of Linden MI with a local McIntyre Softwater branch in Highland, MI - I saw it first at their local branch http://www.mcintyrewater.com/products.htm because I lived in that area at the time.

I am still having trouble with my system. It is 6 months old and is driving me to admire chlorinated units. I am not pleased at all. Feel like I wasted $1300 dollars and countless hours of time. Just emptied my unit and powerwashed my tub again. Second time in three weeks. New filter, fresh water, boraxed cover as per Ecosmarte reccommendation, and the system will not get the level of copper to pass .2. If I have to go through this again I will be switching back to chlorine and demanding some for of retitution for false advertising. Never been this disappointed in a product before...and your help both on-line and in your manual are sub-par. For a thirteen year old firm, one would think that you would have literature to assist customers as opposed to two helpers that work only during normal business hours.

David Lewis,

Welcome back, though I can hear you are plainly not happy to be here. Again, I am sorry to hear you are experiencing trouble with your spa. Sometimes the answer is not an easy one to find because there are so many possible factors. I see it's been 10 days since your last post.

Even with a chlorine pool, it's not always as easy as chlorine, PH and total alkalinity - even though that's all most people know, even most pool guys. There are TDS and phosphates and stabilizers and clarifiers, etc, to consider as well.

The same is true for an ECOsmarte system; there are many pieces to the puzzle including phosphates, TDS, PH, copper, hardness and contaminants. This is why the trouble-shooting chart in the manual covers the basics as opposed to all the different possibilities you might encounter; because we want to give you personal help if the basics don't fix the problem. So, though it sounds like you are nearing the end of your patience, please stick with it for a bit, and they will help you track it down. If you have not already done so, I highly suggest that you get your water tested at your local pool store - most will do it for free. That way you know what you are dealing with and those numbers help home office solve the puzzle with you.

I'm not sure where you are, but the 800-ION-SWIIM line is in MN and operates from 8AM to 6PM Monday-Friday and 1/2 day on Saturday - didn't sound like you were aware of the Saturday hours. Sorry we don't have someone 24/7, but that's not in the budget, yet.

ECOsmarte is trying to hire additional employees right now to keep up with our growth. This is proving difficult to do; locating qualified candidates. So if anyone of reasonable intelligence needs work anywhere near Richfield, MN - please call our home office. This is the height of our busy season and we are doing our best to keep up. We apologize if you are not getting timely and excellent service (I'm going to call them tomorrow for you). And remember, for the first 8 years of ECOsmarte, we were internet only, so sometimes it feels like we are only 5-6 years old, complete with growing pains.

Hang in there, Mr. Lewis - and let us know how it goes.

Hi Mike R.,

Thanks for cross posting on my blog so I knew you responded. I can see you have been quite thorough with all this. The one thing I do not see mentioned in your trouble-shooting, although Mike mentioned it on my blog, is the incorrect placement of the flow switch. Even if the flow switch is moving freely and not getting stuck, the copper placed in the water by the chamber will load on the spring in the flow switch instead of staying in your water where you want it to be. The flow switch needs to precede the chamber, and I can't believe McIntyre didn't get this right. Explains why they stopped selling our products if they couldn't install them correctly.

The picture you posted is actually now being used at ECOsmarte for training installers; "What's wrong with this install?" The flow switch placement. So before you abandon your system - have the flow switch moved and let us know how it goes. I expect this will mark the end of hard water deposits for you. We would have preferred to help you solve this problem in the first 6 months after installation - sorry again about how McIntyre dealt with you.

Since you have had your system for 5 years, at some point you will need to replace the media (we recommend every 5-7 years). Normally the need for media replacement will be noticed because the taste of your water changes, not because there are hard water deposits, which are not normal for any ECOsmarte system with a water source under 25 grains of hardness.

As far as the report, be sure to read the (unsolicited) rebuttal as well. As with any company, we are not perfect, and there are always two sides to every story. We do our best to respond reasonably and with integrity, but we have our boundaries when encountering a customer that wants everything on their terms. A handful of complaints vs. 12,000 installs = not bad.

I am in Bangkok, Thailand and considering an ECOsmarte system for the pool in my new house which is now slowly under construction.

I was in touch with Jeff Grotte in 2004 and then with Nico Wouterse in Australia (but he hasn't responded to recent emails).

Three questions:

1) Has the ECOsmarte system been proven in a tropical climate such as that of Bangkok?

2) What special factors should I consider given the (algae-friendly) climate and variable water quality?

3) Who can help me obtain, install and maintain an ECOsmarte system here?

If the answers to 1 and 2 are positive, whilst that to 3 is uncertain, I am talking to one large pool company that may well be interested to become your Thailand agent (not the one that Jeff was talking to before, but one of their main country-wide competitors).

Please advise and/or try to get Jeff/Nico to follow up.

Thanks,

Graham.

Wendy, I came upon your site while conducting a search for non-chlorinated pools in the Calgary area. Are you aware of any public or privtae pools using your eco-friendly technology? I used to reside in Vancouver and was fortunate to have access to an ozonated pool (vs the toxic chlorine that's all too pervasive!). If you are aware of any in the Calgary area, please advise. Thank you and all the best propogating your systems in pools around the nation. ~ sacha

Graham, I do apologize. Seems a couple of comments slipped through the cracks in a big way. Though it has been 2 months since your post, during which time I hope you were contacted by ECOsmarte home office, I will reply. Better late than never, I suppose.

My knowledge extends this far: ECOsmarte is very big in Florida, which has a
similar tropical climate, I believe. As far as other places in the world with tropical climates - you would have to call ECOsmarte home at 1-800-ION-SWIM. They would also be the ones who would have the answers to questions 2 & 3.

I hope you have had success with getting a pool system and are enjoying a chlorine-free pool by now. I love seeing ECOsmarte spread around the world.

Sacha,
As above, I do apologize that your post slipped through the cracks and I have not responded until now.

Canada is not too keen on ECOsmarte selling pool systems up there; they have certain regulations for pools that involve chlorine residuals, I think. So we are not in Calgary, unfortunately. We are working on it, however, and perhaps soon ECOsmarte will be accepted as a method of pool sanitization in Canada. Thank you for your kind wishes, and thanks for visiting the blog!

Hello everybody, my name is Damion, and I'm glad to join your conmunity,
and wish to assit as far as possible.

Hi,

I have a ECosmarte on my pool and it woks well except for a bloom of algae every month. I pour some bleach and it takes care of the problem but my question is; why the copper does not take care of the algae?

Wendy, I am a brand new customer of ECOsmarte. I had it installed for my inground pool and spa. The swimming pool salesman convinced me that this system was superior to chemically treated water and that ECOsmarte doubled the warranty of all new pool equipment as well. The salesman also said I would cut the cost of utilities in half by using your system. Never once was I told about bloom (whatever that is) but I guarantee you this, the moment I get whatever a bloom is, you will get this system back. I can only imagine having friends, family or business associates over, and all of a sudden I take them out to my backyard and the pool is in full colorful blossom. That to me is not a perfect scenario for anyone. Or, I tell them after a swim party not to be concerned about blue residue in their ears from the copper. I have always had chlorine pools in the past, and had my water maintained by a pool service. My new salesman told me that I will no longer require a service because I purchased the Co2 automated switch so all I need to do is check ph levels once a week and skim the pool. I wish I had come across this forum prior to having ECOsmarte installed. I have not read one good report here (or anywhere else) other than those you have as testimonies on your web site. I got a bad feeling about my poor judgement in making this decision and it was compounded yesterday as I called Mike at your office and he denied that I will only need to filter half as much. I can live with that, but this "bloom" has gott me freaked. I have had pools for 30 years and that has never happened to me before. Mike said I will need to stock up on muriatic acid. Now there a very healthy chemical to swim in. We'll see, but this blog does not bode well for ECOsmarte. As far as NASA is concerned, that is the US Government, and they never tell lies, yeah right!

Wendy,

My pool company in Riverside, Ca. promised me that if I were not completely satisfied at any time within six months of beginning your ECOsmarte system, he would come over and change it out to a chlorinated salt water pool.

Thanks,
John T.

I am installing cartridge for new year and wonder if I can or should claean the copper buildup off titanium plates . The loose stuff flakes off easily but the hardened copper is what I was wondiering about. How does one know if the titanium plate is still good. It is obvious when the copper is no longer good as it is sacrifices itself

Gerald,
You need to remove the chamber and clean it periodically, about once a year, to ensure optimal performance. Take the entire chamber off using the hand-tightened PVC sleeves (whether this is for your pool or for your whole house system). Be sure to turn the water off or shut off your pool filter first! Then remove the wires from the electrodes, and place the chamber in a bucket of 1 part muriatic acid (available at any pool store) and 3 parts water. Make sure both sets of bars (copper and titanium) are submerged. About 20-30 minutes later your bars will be clean. Replace the chamber, reattach the wires to the electrodes and you are ready to go again. The titanium plate should last basically forever, and you are correct in that you will be able to see when to replace the copper bars because they are self-sacrificing. Let us know how it goes!